GROSS: The sky and animals? And there's a sort of relationship that, actually, you can see and you can feel in the images representing, you know - I mean, Nan and I would have these conversations. And I felt that was where I should focus. Excuse me this is my room raw 77. It was a really beautiful action. It's said that children with ADHD receive 20, 000 negative messages about themselves by age 10 — likely far more than their neurotypical counterparts. GROSS: So now, like, you know who you are and other people do, too, 'cause they've seen your work. And then I got - and I met Brian there.
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And that's what the work is really about. They're about beauty, but they're also imbued with a kind of loneliness. I know I certainly did. There were moments that were, you know, never intolerable. Exuse me this is my room raw meaning. My teachers frequently relocated my desk to the hallway to stop me from talking to my classmates, or to drown out the sound of my voice, as I often had to read aloud to myself to understand the material. But this was your opportunity to actually talk with them and address them directly.
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But it also made me very aware of the family because my mother's first reaction that I heard her say to the police is, don't let the children know. And it was one of the most dangerous places in the world. GROSS: It's funny you should say that because you came close to mortality as a younger person. You weren't born yet at the time, but you found out about that. And the company went bankrupt. And we threw a thousand of those bottles into the water around the Temple of Dendur, which was the Sacklers' jewel. And she told me that she was looking for other people to join the project. GROSS: Well, let me pick it up from there. It was the first time I learned that I was expected to behave like everyone else, and that I was falling short at that. And I was also, like, informing people in the museums about the case and keeping them updated on that. But nobody is this good an actor. I know stigma in my community partially explains why I didn't receive help early on. All the Beauty and the Bloodshed' chronicles Nan Goldin's art and activism : Shots - Health News. So riddle me this: Why is this being said now? And the Guggenheim was the most beautiful.
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And the people in ACT UP supported my work, unlike a lot of photography that was being done showing people as AIDS victims. And you say she had mothered you even though she had never been mothered herself. GOLDIN: I moved in with the queens because I worshiped them, basically. SOUNDBITE OF BRIAN ENO AND JOHN CALE'S "SPINNING AWAY"). It's Lucinda Williams singing "Unsuffer Me. Excuse me this is my room. So the fact that I put out my work - it was not accepted as art at the beginning because it was so personal. I believe it was wrist surgery. As someone who invested more hours of his precious life pushing back against the entire narrative of the Pliability War that was waged in the media from about 2017 until now, I'm taking a victory lap. Poitras and Goldin are also producers of the film. And she lived a kind of traumatized life. Let's get back to my interview with artist Nan Goldin, whose photographs are in museums around the world, and Laura Poitras, director of a new Oscar-nominated documentary about Goldin called "All The Beauty And The Bloodshed. " Also with us is the film's director, Laura Poitras. Every time some ESPN reporter published some hatchet job loaded with factually inaccuracies, no one ever tried to verify a word of it.
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So you took it out, but you decided if you were willing to ask her to do that, then you should be willing to do it yourself and have yourself photographed or photograph yourself - I'm not sure which it was - in, you know, in - while engaging in sex. LAURA POITRAS: Well, you know, I have known and admired Nan's artwork for really so long, as long as I've been making films. Nan, there was a period when you didn't speak, I think, when you were still living with your parents or maybe afterwards, when you were so shy that you didn't speak or hardly spoke. And she actually said, like, I think this is something that I'm willing to - I'm ready to talk about to destigmatize it. And we went very deep.
GOLDIN: No, I - my brother told me. But they were photos of her friends, people who were considered social outcasts like drag queens and other queer people and people in the underground art and music scene. The new Oscar-nominated documentary "All The Beauty And The Bloodshed" is about Goldman's anti-Sackler campaign and her life and work. And sometimes some of the older members of ACT UP that are still alive would come to meetings. I don't mean the cheap, superficial kind of romances.
And the first one, we made a bottle with a fake prescription that said OxyContin on it, prescribed by Richard Sackler, side effect - death. Why My ADHD Was Overlooked. "In my view, people were always trying to pull us apart. I think the representation of queer identity, queer sexuality, you know, it's just all groundbreaking. So we had that understanding. And in Jersey, you only had to be topless, if I have that right. GROSS: It's getting late (laughter) in terms of... GOLDIN: Tell me about it. GROSS: Laura, as somebody who directed the film and didn't participate actively in the protests other than filming them, how much do you attribute the success of taking down the Sackler name from many major museums to the work of Nan Goldin and her group, P. N.? She is a very intense interviewer. And generally, I've tried to maintain that right to all the people I photograph over 50 years. Most women, at least in those days, something like 90% of women, went back to the men who battered them. And my sister had a wildness.
I don't think we ever felt like that with each other. And one thing I always appreciate about Coach Belichick and like, is that he's not afraid to have a hard conversation too. You were - the people from your group, P. N., were on the upper levels of the atrium and started dropping these prescriptions into the center of the Guggenheim. And if so, what are you going to wear, because it's a ceremony where, you know, so many people show up in these, like, fabulous gowns made by, you know, famous designers? I was present during ACT UP. Laura, directing this movie, this very powerful movie about a Nan's life, how would you describe what made Nan's photos groundbreaking?
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